Wow, don’t think I’ve seen Apple issue a PR like this before. No doubt Apple’s considering now more than ever to continue to diversify their supply chain. China seems to have no issue continuing with their Zero-Covid approach.
> - Foxconn workers have to walk on highways for hundreds of miles with their luggage to go back home
For anyone wondering why: It it because they are labeled as COVID close contact by health code system, so they cannot take public transport system even they have enough money.
In India's case it was logistics issue. Initial decision was to keep migrant workers in place and provide them with daily necessities free. Some state govts didn't play ball and cut off electricity and rations. After that it took some time for central and various state govts to run special trains to the people. And it's not thousands of kms, 10s of kms.
how is protecting others from a still-deadly pandemic anything remotely like genetic-engineering of Uebermensch and social stratification? people aren't shunned for life because they got coronavirus, they are quarantined until they test negative again
It’s mostly about protecting from a pandemic. China doesn’t have enough completed vaccinations for them to let it rip even if they wanted to, nor was their vaccine as good as ours.
And of course, just because you think long covid isn’t worth the risk doesn’t mean they agree.
That's an interesting channel, though I've personally found it problematic. Nearly all its videos are very strongly negative on China. That makes me wonder do they have an agenda and are they twisting the truth in some cases? Would be great to get any insight on this.
Are they twisting the truth? It is difficult to say without corroborated information that poses an alternate read of the facts.
Is it cherry picking information? Almost certainly.
If you trust the translation in the voice overs or subtitles and the sources of the videos themselves, there is still a lot of material there.
Spotlight on China is another that has news about China's economics / industry / politics for outside of China consumption that doesn't appear to be state media.
It looks very disturbing to see them hauling their luggage (why do they have luggage at their place of employment?) out of something that I can only interpret to look like a prison.
Important note for anyone that doesn't already know, migrant in this context refers to internal migration from far off home towns as opposed to "immigrant" in the context of temporary farm labour migrant workers migrating in from another country where such work forms part of their visa arrangements (Australia's migrant worker visas, pick some fruit, do some backpacking) or is part of seasonal regional migration over the border such as parts of the USA where Mexican workers legally migrate on short temporary work visas during farm's harvest seasons.
Yes, but not ones where you're fenced in with barbed wire and can't leave.
I thought the concept of company towns was more financial and economic slavery, eg your company gives you a mortgage to a buy a house from the company, all near work so you can work long hours, and you're essentially an indentured servant.
But this is actual slavery, these people are literally locked in and can't leave except by crawling over barbed wire fences.
I live in a multi-apartment house. When COVID started, one of tenants was found COVID-positive. Our entire house was locked by authorities for two weeks. It was forbidden to leave it, there was car with policeman and barricades. The only way to get food was to order it with online delivery.
A closer analogy would be to an oilfield "man camp" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbGg57r9wK0) — temporary housing for a bunch of people who have signed up to do a few months' stint of work in a job that requires them to be in the middle of nowhere to do that job (because that's inherent to the nature of the job.) They're a lot like military encampments, actually.
The real question is why these factories are built in the middle of nowhere. There's no clear need for it; no reason they couldn't just be built in cities. They're not heavy industrial polluters or anything that would make people not want them in city limits.
The bad part of company towns was that they didn’t pay you in normally accepted currency. It’s not the part where they gave you housing.
Japanese companies also own worker housing, sometimes even owning the CEO’s house (as a way of making his wages look lower). Some of them are also abusive, doesn’t mean they all are.
It's due to China's Hukou system, a type of caste system, due to which rural workers can't obtain any govt benefits or even housing in cities. This leads to this kind of worker dorm situation.
I don't see any problem here as long as workers get freely to choose whether they want to live in factory dorms or in any other arrangements they can afford. Clearly such choice is available to them and there are numerous reports online that young workers are increasing choosing not to live in factory dorms. e.g. the following report talks about young female workers usually choose to move out of the factory dorm when they got boyfriends.
Other than the annual university entrance exam and buying properties, Hukou is no longer enforced. The real difference only exists for tier-1 mega cities like Beijing and Shanghai, 97% Chinese don't live there.
Of course they'd "choose" to move out as soon as they finally can, if they get on with a local who has residence. Otherwise the only alternative is more or less going home to their parents.
This is super bad news for Apple — Zengzhou having a massive lockdown will scare away workers for a while unless they promise to pay big jumps in salary to come back I would imagine.. Apple shifting tons of production to India is super bad news for China and this is definitely going to accelerate it. Zhengzhou is Uber important to apple’s iPhone production.. so my guess is that Foxconn production is essentially zero right now and will be for a month before lines get back up to speed.. (lockdown is supposed to be 7 days) but these production lines are massive, so could impact production for an extended period if workers are nervous to come back. Likely could cost Apple tens of billions in revenue..
Interestingly, this does not affect iPhone 14 and iPhone 14 Plus. Either the production lines for them are not affected (yet) or Apple have plenty of inventory for the holiday season.
I just ordered a M2 Macbook Air and apparently they ship those directly out of China. It's already cleared customs in Zhengzhou according to tracking, which would indicate they make those there and have no issues fulfilling orders currently.
> ...which would indicate they make those there and have no issues fulfilling orders currently.
Based on FY22 total net sales[1], the entire Mac category accounted for 10.2%, whereas iPhone category accounted for 52.1%.
In other words, if iPhone production volume were reduced by just -10% of FY22 levels going into the holidays, that would be equivalent to half of Mac revenue!
The press release was making forward-looking statements so you may be correct, but this thought experiment suggests that even if they were experiencing Mac throughput issues, it's almost irrelevant if the same facility is being shared with iPhone production.
The Apple Store near me told me that the 14 Plus sold less than even the 13 Mini. Which is kind of wild to me, I thought most wanted bigger phones and huge batteries, which is why the Mini line was killed. I say that as someone who thinks the 13 Mini is the best phone I’ve ever owned, but I always figured it was niche compared to huge phones
Yeah the 13 mini is a pretty excellent form factor. It fits in most hands, pockets, and slots in bags. It’s even small enough to toss in a suit jacket without being visible or causing the jacket to sag.
Fits in most hands, sure, but I never understood this "fits in pockets" obsession - tons of similar comments for all kinds of gadgets, when even a 2x version would fit any normal pocket (on a jeans say, or a coat) just fine.
Surely you've seen people who put their phone and wallet on a table before sitting down, because they can't comfortably sit with them in their pockets?
Mens' clothes have adapted significantly over the past 15 years to accommodate growing devices - it's just happened slowly enough that it's hard to notice.
Modern jeans are made with deeper front pockets; and a lot of sportswear has added/redesigned pockets. I have running clothes from 20 years ago with nothing but a space for some keys, and others with only shallow pockets with no button or zip - hardly suitable for carrying a $1000 phone! Modern running clothes often add a large, zipped, sweat-proof pocket specifically designed for carrying a phone.
People's experience of this will vary with their style preferences, naturally - nothing modern exceeds the pockets on a 1990s pair of cargo pants or JCNO jeans! And if you update your clothes regularly, your entire wardrobe might have gained large pockets without you noticing.
>Surely you've seen people who put their phone and wallet on a table before sitting down, because they can't comfortably sit with them in their pockets?
Yes, never understood them either. It's no issue to sit with a phone and wallet in the pocket/backpockets. This is more of a The Princess and the Pea-style issue than a real problem....
You may want to look at it from a non male perspective: for smaller people and tighter trousers or small exterior pockets on skirts and other clothing the smaller (mini) version often just fits and is one comfortable to wear even with regular movement (think of very tight stretching jeans).
I don't know, I have pretty normal guys' levi's jeans (model 514), waist size 30, length 32. The jeans fit comfortably, they're not painted on.
My iphone 7 fits ok-ish in my front pokets if I stand but I have to adjust it and pull it down when I want to sit. It's the main reason why I was looking at the 13 mini as opposed to the regular.
I find that the 13 mini is about the largest thing that is comfortable in my pocket while sitting or on a bike.
As for a coat/suit jacket I can always tell when someone has a large phone in their suit jacket pocket. If you care about that sort of thing it really ruins the line and drape of the jacket.
You want to put it in the pocket and be able to move freely after that. It worked for me with Nokia 3310, it does not work the same with any modern phone.
I was interested in the 14+ for a family member, but the pricing is awful. I'd rather go up to the 14 Pro or look into the 13 series (same phone for less).
Almost everyone I know having a big Iphone bought it because it was the most expensive one. No one does it because they like to hold a mini TV. I may be biased, but I have a wide sample.
When you can get an iPhone 13 Pro for almost the same price but it is objectively better (or alternatively get an iPhone 13 on clearance, which is almost the same device) it isn’t hard to see why the regular 14 isn’t selling amongst people who are upgrading early in the release cycle and are therefore more likely to be enthusiasts.
Than the iPhone 14 (non-Pro)? It has a brighter screen which runs at 120Hz (not 60) and it has the additional telephoto lens (and LiDAR, though I don't think there's any use for that still). I also think it looks nicer, but that's a personal preference.
Because Apple didn't upgrade the CPU in the non-pro this year the iPhone 13 Pro is still the better device.
1. Workers only get food if they show up for their shift. If they are sick and don't work, there is no place to get food in the Foxconn campus. Due to the lockdown, the workers can't order food delivered online if sick.
2. When local governments force people to quarantine, they are supposed to provide basic meals. However, it seems most workers who were quarantined recently did not receive any food or water for days because the local government expected Foxconn to provide it instead.
3. Someone made a viral video suggesting everyone who was quarantined in a dormitory room died of a new deadly disease.
This is a consequence of China’s zero-Covid policy. Nationally, the instruction is to eliminate outbreaks, even of new and milder variants. Leading up to the party congress local authorities appear to have reported inaccurately low numbers to avoid bad news for the leadership. Now, after the congress, the task is to quickly eliminate outbreaks to avoid the need for even harsher measures like full-city lockdowns like seen in Shanghai earlier this year. Additionally China has spent the past three years telling its population that the rest of the world has been irresponsibly murdering its citizens by adopting a “live with Covid” policy.
So when rumors of a possible lockdown of the factory or its economic zone started spreading, employees fled either because they feared an outbreak or because they didn’t want to get locked in there for an indeterminate period of time.
What have you heard about it? I find it hard to assess with the currently available information (and, apparently, so does the world given the huge disparities in politics).
Long covid is real and scary. So are cancer, heart attacks and car crashes, but it would be a really bad idea to skip a cost/benefit analysis of the possible counter measures available at societal level because of that.
The best estimate I found was from May of this year. At the time they estimated somewhere between 7.7 and 23 million cases of long Covid in the US.
Compare that with 1.6 million people getting a cancer diagnosis every year, about 40 thousand traffic fatalities and 2.2 million injured in traffic accidents.
Some of the worst kind of long covid is neurological. I and others I know had non-trivial (10-25%) cognitive deficit for multiple months after covid. For some reason, I also experienced the same after receiving my latest bivalent booster, but for a much shorter period of time (1-2 weeks instead of 12).
There has been relatively little in the media about the cognitive/neurological costs of covid to our society. If you get covid and your "sickness" is over in a week or two and you go back to work but you've had 15 points knocked off your IQ for half a year, what is the true cost of that to an entire civilization when scaled up to the whole planet?
Given the choice between having had covid and living under an authoritarian regime for the last three years, I'd have chosen the latter.
> what is the true cost of that to an entire civilization when scaled up to the whole planet?
What indeed? It's not 0. It's not infinite. But the cost of trying to reduce covid (and hence long covid) cases to 0 is infinite. It's a hard problem and entirely unclear where we should draw the line.
I truly do hope you (and all other affected) will get better.
> it would be a really bad idea to skip a cost/benefit analysis
Western leaders aren't doing any cost/benefit analysis at all - except to their political career.
We have a range of very low-cost, technological measures avaliable. For exampme upgrading schools with proper ventillation. We have scientific studies that show this would reduce likelihood of infection for everythint, from COVID to common cold. It would reduce CO2 concentrations in classrooms and help children be more alert and awake. There has been zero budget allocated to them.
In London I have seen UV sterilisation installed on handrails of the escalators, and ROI on that will be mostly zero.
Long Covid should be taken very seriously, but my understanding is that it is milder and less prevalent among the vaccinated. I don’t know if the hard figures “justify” something like a zero-Covid policy
You are free to hole up. Does not mean the rest must do the same. We have already fucked up the economy and health care. This kill people too. Enough already
In your dreams. In practice our lives are routinely traded for money. Simple example - government would pay for so many heart surgeries per year. Did not fit in current quota - wait. If you die meanwhile - nobody gives a shit. Corporate example - Google "ford pinto trading lives for money".
I have immuno-compromised and elderly family. They have to visit the post office, the passport office, the insurance, etc.
Every time they do, people are refusing to wear a simple mask and are putting them at risk. There is always a guy that is obviously ill and is coughing all over the place.
Like if you go to a nightclub ill, whatever, everyone is there by choice. But visiting a government establishments is a legal obligation.
Why is it that if you go into my house uninvited, fall onto a ditch and break your leg, I could be held responsible, but if I cought at your face on purpose to infect you, noone is at fault.
Why is it at least not a social norm to kick out sick and unmasked people from public institutions?
>"Why is it that if you go into my house uninvited, fall onto a ditch and break your leg, I could be held responsible?"
Because we have some really fucked up laws that should not exist. Go argue with the government
>"Why is it at least not a social norm to kick out sick and unmasked people from public institutions?"
Because The Socium does not want to have this norm. Might be unfair to some but who says the life is. As for your particular case - it is better if we try to build society where we do not need to go to a fucking passport office.
I think if it isn’t now it will be in China. It wouldn’t surprise me if this was a retaliatory move for the recent chip ban. No evidence of that whatsoever, pure speculation.
The policy in China is 1-2 years behind. Everyone else has realized that with Omicron a zero Covid policy is no longer feasible (and, where vaccination rates are high, not needed either), but that hasn't yet gotten through to Xi (or it has, but he thinks reversing the policy will somehow cause him to "lose face").
Expectations, I'd bet. During peak covid, everything was a bit like this - but now the perception is closer to "business as usual, with economic headwinds".
"Zhengzhou, China. The facility is currently operating at significantly reduced capacity. As we have done throughout the COVID-19 pandemic, we are prioritizing the health and safety of the workers in our supply chain."
From different news outlets and youtube channels that cover china's zero covid policy I feel the statement above referring to the health and safety of the Foxconn workers is pure PR puff.
I really like this youtube channel call China Insights witch gives some decent information on this exact Foxconn issues and how the workers are fleeing the lock-down.
> China seems to have no issue continuing with their Zero-Covid approach
I imagine it's politically difficult. If they open the floodgates, it's going to be worse than for most other countries because they haven't had a chance to build natural immunity from exposure, only from vaccines. And any wave of infections is going to be seen as a failure of zero-covid, making the hardships of it meaningless; a failure of the party.
I'm not sure how they are going to get out of it without letting some heads roll. Maybe a wonder vaccine that will make all of China immune.
It's more about saving face. China has being beating the drum for 3 years that it's covid policy has been successful and it should be the poster child of covid response and every other country is wrong and sucks.
If they end zero-covid policy it's admitting they were wrong and that its failed.
On the flip side their covid vaccine has also being a failure.
> On the flip side their covid vaccine has also being a failure.
I think this is the bigger one -- studies indicate it's not nearly as effective as the western (mRNA) Covid shots, but China refuses to use the western shots. If they open the floodgates and (to absolutely no one's surprise) death rates spike, it proves that the Chinese shot was indeed mostly useless.
I do think that their covid policy (though not the way it was implemented) was the right way to go in the first two years. But with Omicron, the game has changed, as it is extremely contagious.
Implementing strict hygiene precautions is still important - especially in dense populated regions and at work places with close contact. But this isolation at all costs and without taking proper care for the isolated, is just a disaster. Especially, if it can only slow down the spread, but no longer contain it.
Exactly. And somewhere in 2021 many countries shifted to something that could be described as controlled exposure, weakening measures and causing more people to be exposed (whether vaccinated or not), at a level the health care system could cope with. Of course it was unfashionable to describe it like that, but the effect was a population better capable of dealing with it.
The Chinese vaccine is pretty good, so their population is already well protected, assuming they have been vaccinating everyone as thoroughly as they have been locking them down…
I think one problem in China is that old people have resisted being vaccinated because they don’t trust the authorities. And old people are obviously the most at risk of dying or being seriously ill. It’s a made in China problem, for sure.
A Chinese post-doc came to join my group 1 year into the pandemic. He took an antibody test, which should have shown antibodies due to his 2 doses of Sinovax.
Nada.
The first thing he after he arrived in the US was to get vaccinated.
It is a chicken and egg problem. When you have no COVID cases, the risk of taking a vaccine for older people (its side effect) may outweigh the benefits. However, once it cannot contain COVID cases anymore, the benefits/costs calculation will change drastically and they cannot get vaccinated fast enough then. It is a dilemma that the China government needs to resolve, there is no way they can continue with this zero COVID policy forever.
Why does it not? The ethics of forced vaccination notwithstanding, if China is okay with using its authoritarian rule to impose massive lockdowns repeatedly, surely it'd be comfortable using its power to force vaccination?
My first thought was that it’s shocking to see an announcement like this on a Sunday. Then I realized they might be hoping the news gets buried. But with the election on Tuesday, I think that would have happened either way!
I’ve heard that, but isn’t that assuming the news will be released on a weekday? I can’t remember the last time a corporate press release went out on a Sunday.
Yes, if Apple wanted to bury, a Friday afternoon release would have been in order.
More likely these are new developments and Apple just heard of them relatively recently, keeping in mind that it's already Monday morning in China.
This is also quite likely retaliation from China for Biden's latest trade war actions. Apple, is after all, one of two major US companies whose share price has not been turned into rubble. Doing this days before Midterms, knowing how desperate the Democrats are, is perfect timing. If Apple's share price falls drastically, it will be headline news and will likely also materially impact most indexes.
What's the other major US company whose share price hasn't been rubble-ized? Why Tesla of course. And their biggest and - most likely - only profitable factory is in China.
Hasn't been rubble-ized? TSLA's at $227 from a high of almost $400 this year, so I'm no sure what you mean. And given the shutdowns, it seems to me that Tesla's China factory would be the unprofitable one.
