> The defining aspect of these gig worker jobs is that independent contractors _can_ decide when and how to work.

So the workers can negotiate when, how and for how much they'll work for their clients? I've got an '01 sedan collecting dust, can I decide that's how I'm going to pick up my clients via Uber?

When I worked as a contractor, it didn't matter that I used some shitty laptop or OS to get my work done, because I had the freedom to decide how and where I completed my work. Workers using Uber are denied that freedom.

> it didn't matter that I used some shitty laptop or OS to get my work done

This isn't a reasonable comparison. Your shitty laptop or OS was likely not part of the product. If I want a website I don't care what your laptop looks like. If I am being driven somewhere I certainly care about what condition the car is in.

> If I am being driven somewhere I certainly care about what condition the car is in.

Right, so sounds like Uber sensibly wants their representatives on the street to project their desired corporate image.

Thus, employees.

> This isn't a reasonable comparison. Your shitty laptop or OS was likely not part of the product

If a client hires me to build a web app, I get to decide how, when and where it is built. That means I get to choose if I use, say, Django or Rails on the backend, and maybe React on the front end. These are certainly part of the product.

> If a client hires me to build a web app, I get to decide how, when and where it is built.

No thats not really true, for all cases of contracting.

I, as the client, could absolutely tell you to use rails, and if you don't use rails, I can "fire" you the contractor.

Sure, some clients might not care. But some would care, and they can tell you want to do, and control what you use, and not work with you if you don't do what you say.

That is not necessarily the case. The client may well have restrictions on what technologies you use, especially if they are to run and maintain it after you have built it. This probably is considered part of the product.

But you and the client negotiate and come to an agreement or decide not to do business. If you fail to come to an agreement with many clients this may affect your reputation, but no central authority will ban you from talking to future clients.

If I started "Daniel's Ruby Shop", collected money from clients, and paid it to you if you made Ruby websites that met standards I set, and required you to Skype me at specific times or forever be banned from "contracts" you're not an independent contractor, you're my employee.

The contractor and client would negotiate those terms.

This is one thing that confuses me about the drive to classify Uber drivers as workers. Admittedly anecdotal, but when chatting with drivers, it seems like a fair number drive part time to make some extra money. I don't think they really want to be classified as employees of Uber.

That said, I'm not really sure what the solution is. If drivers that drive more than X hours per week have to be employees, I wouldn't be surprised to see Uber attempt to limit hours for each driver.

> Admittedly anecdotal, but when chatting with drivers, it seems like a fair number drive part time to make some extra money

There are millions of part-time employees in the US who choose their own hours.

I think you are conflating two thing: drivers being classified as employees, and being able to pick and choose (with some rules) their hours. Yes, in most cases employers decide to set the work hours, but that is not necessarily a condition of being an employee.

The fight here is not about whether Uber should be setting the hours that their drivers/employees work it is about: 1. Who pays the relevant employment taxes 2. Do the drivers qualify for state/federally mandated benefits like time off, unemployment, workers comp, etc.. (note: all of those things cost money, plus time to administer) 3. Do they come under rules about treating all employees the same (e.g.: do drivers that work full time get the same 401k program as Uber programmers)

All of this is really about Uber and the like trying to shift costs and burdens away from themselves. In many cases trying to eliminate them from their business model. We as a society have put protections in place against this because we saw how horrible things got, and this is an attempt to end-run those protections. I am open to figuring out how we should re-jigger how we run this, but not like this at the expense of workers.

Thank you, this was helpful - I didn't realize (but now that I read it it makes sense) that drivers could still be employees with part time (few hours a week) work. I wonder how much of those costs are fixed vs variable (based on how much a driver works) - one advantage of Uber is that they can surge capacity by having workers that only work a few hours a week.